Curse

Mystic Reaper · Jan 03, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

the same thing can be said about Frozen Soil, where someone dies inside the bubble range, but u can still rez them if YOU are outside the FS range.

Fred Kiwi · Jan 03, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

I really think gotenks has a flawed argument with the non counterable thing. I mean, (I have run eoe before, but I might be wrong) the saccers have to die at least 2 times to kill someone. Anyone can heal in that space of time.

Beqxter · Jan 03, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajora

If somebody is in edge range, an invisible bubble is put around them the size of edge range. It's almost as if Edge leapfrogs itself from player to player if the starting player is in edge range.

Hm, this doesn't QUITE jive with my own observations. I think a previous poster might have it right with the whole "nearby" thing - basically, I think you're right Ajora but I think the "bubble" is smaller. If the EoE range repeated itself for everyone, that would be massive and I've seen plenty of people survive by being out of range - hell, I've survived myself several times as a monk by high-tailing it out of the bomb's range.

I think perhaps the skill isn't bugged, but does just what it says: deals damage to nearby humans. If a human is outside the perimeter of the Edge but still "nearby" a human within the perimeter, he or she takes damage. But if a third person is "nearby" that outside person but NOT nearby the person in Edge, they should not take damage.

Untested, and just a theory, but makes sense to me. Should probably come up with a method of testing it for real so we can be definitive. Hmmmm....

Sagius Truthbarron · Jan 03, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotenks

Only one question. Can you play as any one of the races that you mentioned above, other than humans?

I don't remember ever being able to play as Charr in PvE...

Mystical · Jan 03, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajora

Uhhh...no?
You can just observe IWAY and see...everytime something dies the warrior/rangers take damage. Heck I'm watching an IWAY match right now, a Mo/E died, everyone takes damage.

It's not based off class, just race, and we're all human.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but maybe you missed someone else dying. I've done EoE Bomb far to many times to know that a one class bomb will not kill everything.

The way everyone is describing it here my above senario of all mesmers and no secondaires should work, but it doesn't. Can anyone explain why? It should, everyone is human.

gotenks · Jan 03, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Very nice to hear everyone's comments. Aside from the flaming directed towards me from a select few, here are the important things that have come up from this discussion uptil now

- Roughly half the POSTS agree that EoE is fine as it is.

- People have shown concern over the area of effect of EoE, some of them however agree that apart from that there is nothing wrong with it.

- Few think that it is overpowered.

- Also some people have raised the arguement that "Race is not a PvE only concept".

- Quite a few people are confused about the working of EoE, as they think damage from EoE is class specific (I think its the same confusion that occured when people were talking about a new playable race in chapter 2 and it was confused by some as a class).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eder

what should the death of a minion/pet under EoE affect in PvP, if not the other minions/pets that are in range?

lets see what someone earlier in the thread said too

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajora

Class has nothing to do with it. A Human dies, all humans take damage.

EoE is bugged, however. Somewhere it mentioned that Pets are a race? Nope. Pets, Ghostly Hero, Priests, are clumped into a race called 'Allies'. Don't believe me? Kill a pet under EoE and watch the Ghostly Hero take damage. Now if I could only get my Pet EoE bomb to work in HoH..oh boy.

Now lemme suggest a little experiment. Ghostly heroes belong to an in game race called the eternals, right? In UW after taking the spider quest lots of eternals spawn (The ones using IW) Have minions/pets over there and and use EoE, when the minions/pets die, see if the eternals take damage. I dont think they will. Yet in PvP a ghostly hero belonging to a different RACE takes damage from a pets death? So essentially they are all clumped together in a more PvP favourable group called the allies, which causes suddenly to change the meaning of the whole concept of races as it exists in PvE.

Most people misunderstood what I meant by the RACE concept in PvP. I never meant to say that EoE is not doing what its supposed to. If someone in its area has the same race identifier as the being that just died it deals X amounts of damge to that being of same race.

My point was that when someone enters PvP the defination of RACES as it exists in PvE is already violated as I demonstrated in my previous example and the qoute from Ajora. Then why on earth in a purely competitive environment would you allow this coupling between two PLAYERS in opposite teams to occur based on an already fuzzy concept of RACE in PvP? I say remove it since there is only one playable race at the moment and that is humans, pets/minions/eternals have already been denied the right to a different race in PvP as they are the ALLIES. Please think about it for a moment before stating your reply, and I hope you can see things from my perspective too

dbgtboy · Jan 03, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellix Cantero

Well, fortunately we know that no iway team was even close to qualifying, so we don't have to worry about seeing that at the WCs.

MATH is going to be in the world championship fyi.

gotenks · Jan 03, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

- Race is not a PvE-only concept. You made that up.

Agreed. But its defination is fuzzy when applied to PvP (Please read my previous post)

Quote:

- EoE's outcome is not any more random than that of other spirits. The skill does just what it says.

Partly true. Skill does what its suppose to do, the way its been coded at the moment. Replace RACE with CLASS and code it in a different way for PvP and you will have a properly balanced skill.

Quote:

- EoE takes as much skill to use as does any other spirit. You either lay it down and use it as part of a strategy, or you die from it.

Lemme correct your sentence as it applies to using EoE. You lay it down HOPING it works as part of your strategy, you die from it if youre UNLUCKY. If someone tells me that he can predict the exact outcome of an EoE use in advance, he's no mere mortal in my opinion.

Quote:

- EoE affects both teams just like every other spirit. In fact, EoE is even *more* limited than other spirits, because both range AND race matter.

No other spirit has a purely offensive (as in taking hp off someone) effect as EoE does. Every other skill that has such an offensive effect has a counter. A counter means a skill which works against the root cause of the damage(fire/air/earth/water/physical)/condition/hex or Armor for that matter. EoE doesnt have a damage type, the root cause of the damage is RACE, which I dont have a counter against at the moment in my armor/skill listing. I am sorry but killing the spirit is not a counter in my book, its more of a work around.

Quote:

- EoE doesn't win matches by itself.

Yupp, but it sure increases the amount of luck(randomness) involved in the outcome.

sun is in us · Jan 03, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

I rub myself in Stone Summit Armor drops before every match.....EOE is fooled and the only pet that will come near/attack me is the Warthog.

Juicey Shake · Jan 04, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

A coldfire in UW died and my pet spider took EoE damage >:O

OUTRAGE, FIX FIX NOW. OGM.

I still say it is fine as is, especially in pvp ;s,

Ajora · Jan 04, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystical

I'm not saying you're wrong, but maybe you missed someone else dying. I've done EoE Bomb far to many times to know that a one class bomb will not kill everything.

The way everyone is describing it here my above senario of all mesmers and no secondaires should work, but it doesn't. Can anyone explain why? It should, everyone is human.

Try it again. An edge bomb team has 7 bombers, 1 Mark of Prot, resser. See, 7 people dying will not Edge Bomb the enemy team. I'm think your Bombs just failed and you have this false idea that it's because you were single classed.

It's not. If a human dies, all take damage. There's no class-type in the equation. Just observe any IWAY match.

Mystical · Jan 04, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

It just seems fishy to me that if EoE does work the way everyone is saying that EoE bomb should never fail (albeit if a monk is quick enough on spamming Heal Party or any other circumstantial saves), but it does

I've done it where the other team just stood there in range of a max EoE, not doing anything and the warriors lived. My explaination was we had only 1 secondary warrior -- not enough damage. Everything else died. Maybe I did miss a heal, I doubt it though (not to be judgmental but it was one of those "W/Mo" random groups).

Only way to really know is if someone from ANet respondes here. Would be nice to know if EoE is bugged or really is class dependant.

KamikazeChicken · Jan 04, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

EoE is not linked with specific classes. >.> Humanoid is the race, and everyone will take damage. It's always possible that their warriors were of the extraordinary life variety, or there's also that wonderful assumption a W/Mo used something like healing hands to prevent damage.

Juicey Shake · Jan 04, 2006, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Healing Hands is a conditional heal only triggered by an 'Attack'
And if it was ONLY your team that bombed out, even if you got all 8 of your guys to do so, that'd only be a spike of 464 damage [58*8], need to use chain lightning or some sort to weaken them a bit beforehand, or just bomb in waves with a mark of prot light of dwaynaer

awoeonip · Jan 04, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotenks

- I get hit by a skill(A skill that has a defined outcome, that is X no of targets will take Y amount of damage or All targets in AoE will take Y amount of damage) that makes me loose health - counter : I can heal myself with other skills.

- Now lets look at EoE, I am in a team opposite to the one that drops EoE. If someone dies I take damage which ultimately has an effect in me being dead/alive at the end, which is the same effect as as a direct damage/condition/hex spell has. I have been given counters for those, what about EoE, where is my counter, if only I can choose to play a different race, but wait thats not possible, right?

How come when you get hit by a skill, healing yourself is a viable option for a counter, but when you're hit with EoE, it's not?

heist23 · Jan 04, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotenks

The suggestion most people give is "go an kill the spirit". I ask those people, would you prefer to play guild wars without any of the counters mention above? Just go and kill the person who is putting those on you. Easy enough, right?

killing the spirit is a viable counter. EoE, like most spirits, has a long, long recharge. killing the spirit will buy your team time to remove the opposing team's monk and then get to the ranger.

but the bolded sentence doesn't make sense. killing the spirit would break down an EoE bomb team. in fact, killing a spirit is quite easy. a spellcaster could wand it in about 4 hits. killing the spirit is the last counter, but it's not like killing the Mesmer who's hexing the crap out of you. killing the spirit is killing the spirit. if you want to end the EoE bomb, it's quite as simple as that. if you want to get to the source of it, then start hacking away at the ranger that's laying it down every 60 seconds.